Sunday, November 3, 2013

Frum Girl quits Coffe room amid doubts in Emunah from fellow posters.

You would think what could be so wrong? the name of the site is yeshivish sounding It must be a kosher site, a frum news website with Rabbonim approving and guiding it. Well that is not what it seems as posted previously HERE. The coffeeroom section is not an ideal place for any Frum yid. A frum teenage Girl who was a contributing member in the Coffee room has posted she is saying goodbye to the ywn CoffeeRoom. Her reason, the posts there gave her doubts in Ikrei Emunah.

"It's been about three months that I've been on the CR, and now it's time for me to go. My emunah is just not strong enough to hear everyone else's doubts and still remain absolutely sure that there is a God in the world and He loves me. One poster in particular raised some doubts that took three solid hours with a rabbi to resolve. This, coupled with some other stuff have made me realize that the internet and I don't go well together. And so it is with regret and sadness that I say my final goodbye to the CR. You guys have helped me through so many trials in my life and I will be eternally grateful for all that you've done. I will miss the informative and funny posts I've seen so frequently''.

The idea of a social networking forum on a yeshivishe website is outrageous! The people who participate in the dialogue on The CoffeeRoom could be bochurim, single girls, women, men – nobody really knows who one is talking to. And the topics discussed are far from appropriate for boys and girls to be talking to each other about. It should be moderated by a well known Rav proudly writing his name. The dangers of theinternet are not only the shmutz but the discussions on hashkafa by amateurs and anonymous commentors pose a great risk.

33 comments:

  1. It is sad for society when the internet g-ds become bigger than the rabbonim.

    I think that Country Yossi magazine should not carry the coffee room digest either, as it gives somewhat of an impimatur to that site.

    The only way this will stop is when we the consumer tell yeshivas and stores that we won't attend the chinese auctions and stores advertised on these sites.

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  2. why don't you close down your site as a good first example?

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  3. Your more than welcome not to visit. Thisis not a news site. there is no kefira or questioning ikrei emunah here.

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  4. It says in the article that Rabbonim approve the YeshivaWorld website. Why are Rabbonim approving it? Why don't they speak up and close down this website, or reveal its true colors as being NOT for the yeshiva world at all?! Why must this girl (and who knows how many others) suffer like this?

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    1. who are the Rabbonim?? why are they hiding behind the screen? would they giv a a haskama to a sefer without their name visible?

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    2. Who says there are really Rabbonim who gave YeshivaWorld a haskama? That could also be a bluff, because it does not seem possible that they would do so with the coffee room on the site.

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    3. Coffee-room Chick Chucks Chit-Chat. :-)

      Great post as usual.

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    4. I can appreciate the need for censorship to an extent as well as the need for the integrity of a webmaster (if it advertises itself as yeshiva, it should be important for a yeshiva audience) but I think the frum community should be focusing less on the "suffering" of a girl who got a little too much information and pulled back than the "suffering" of people in the frum community who are greatly disconnected from useful knowledge because their parents are being overly protective of their morals

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    5. No one is "suffering". The frum community is thriving and children are very happy with their upbringing. Yes there are challenges that have to be dealt with, but over all the Torah is continuing its transmission from Har Sinai up to today. The Parents of today are giving us this great treasure no reason to feel bad at all. We are very Happy!"

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  5. Where are the TAG and other organizations which were set up to help people filter their internet use and educate the public about these matters? Why can't they block YeshivaWorld from use by frum people, as it truly is a social media website with its coffee room? Action should be taken.

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  6. I'm really shocked that it has come to this. Who knows how many others have been cooled off by things they read on "Yeshiva" world news?

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  7. Forgive my ignorance because I am both a "hozer b'teshuva" and a Religious Zionist to boot, but what is wrong with boys and girls talking to each other on the internet if they don't even see each other? After all, in the old yeshivot in eastern Europe, the bachurim would eat at the homes of ba'alei batim and they would see and probably even talk to girls there (good way to make a shidduch, even!).

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    1. Times have changed. The setting in a social chat room is such that causes people to lower their guard and its usually a recipe for disaster. People tend to feel comfortable to discuss or converse in a way they would never do in real life.

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  8. If nobody contacts Tag or the Rabbonim to bring this to their attention nothing will change.

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    1. i spoke about this with TAG and they know all about it.

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  9. Since when is it a bad thing to have one's ikarei emunah challenged?

    If this girl folds under anonymous challenges to her emunah - then we have a much more serious problem in our schools, seminaries and yeshivas.

    this isn't Catholicism where blind faith and allegiance is demanded. If our teachers, rebbeim and parents have been repressing the natural inclination as an educated human to question (likely because they themselves are unwilling or unable to answer legitimate questions) than we are raising robots, not bnei torah.

    Unless you live in a bubble, and that bubble happens to be floating in outerspace inside a cave in the year 1932 you will have your ikarei emunah challenged on a regular basis. And if the internet trolls can break you, imagine what will happen when you actually go out into the world.

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    1. NO one is saying you are not allowed to ask questions however, these topics are not up for discussion in a social chat room with no Rabbonim who are willing to put their names on publicly. Yesodos of Emunah are to be discussed with a competent Rav or teacher or parent not in the coffee room. with a bunch of clowns and people who themselves have doubts.

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    2. chassidisheshechitaNovember 4, 2013 at 2:58 PM

      You hit the nail on the head. Well said.

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  10. Fotheringay-PhippsNovember 4, 2013 at 2:18 PM

    By that logic, no one should be allowed to discuss any hashkafa topic with anyone ever without a rov listening in and ready to make helpful corrections if necessary.

    It's just people talking. I don't see what about the internet changes this.

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  11. I find it interesting that Tomim Ti is saying that it is undesirable to discuss basics of emunah without a Rav present. This is in line with one of the main the arguments the Haredi spokesmen here in Israel were in using to justify exempting Haredi boys from military service.....that if Haredi boys are exposed to non-Haredim, they will inevitably abandon Torah study, if not giving up completely mitzvah observance. This is a frank admission that the Haredi education system is ineffective and inferior, and that the only way to ensure that someone stays within the Haredi system is through coercion.

    The argument that that internet is some sort of new threat to emunah doesn't make sense. There have been mass abandonments of Torah observance going back thousands of years, including the biblical period which lead to the destruction of the First Beit HaMikdash, the Hellenists of the Second Beit HaMikdash, the spread of Karaism in the Middle Ages, the mass conversion of Jews to Christianity around the time of the expulsion from Spain, the Haskalah in the 19th and 20th century, the Yevseksia and many other episodes. All of these were before the invention of the television and internet. People can stand on a street corner and talk about the yesodot of emunah without the presence of a Rav, even without the internet. In fact, I am sure it happens all the time. Thus, I think it is up to religious leaders and teachers to take a hard look at their educational policies and find out why their educational system is so ineffective, if, as I said, coercion is the only way to keep people within the system.

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    1. YBD,

      I think the point is this. Yahadus is best thought about when one is mature. In other generations, when families were close-knit and information was hard to come by, Ikrei Emuna were imbibed with the mother's milk.

      If a person wanted to go OTD, that was a decision made as a mature adult, as it was only when when one got older that he travelled away from the Shtetl.

      But the coffee room is open to anyone with an internet connection, which nowadays is anyone, young and old alike,

      Additionally, since it lies on the yeshivaworld website, readers feel that it has legitimacy. Most yeshiva internet users will not go out seeking websites which contradict Ikrei Emuna, but when they stumble upon it on a "kosher" website, it is quite unnerving.

      Offering a 3 year old non-kosher candy will entice the child, because he doesn't know any better, but if you off the same to a 20 year old he will naturally reject it. Similarly, putting that same candy on a shelf of a store that only sells kosher items will invariably snare the less vigilant.

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    2. I eat food that has hebrew writing on the wrapper because I assume if its got Hebrew on the wrapper it must be kosher!

      Some of my more machmir friends will only eat it if they can actually find the word kosher, because if it says kosher, it must be glatt!

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  12. For some reason people assume that the people who post in the coffeeroom are smart and know what they are talking about.

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  13. The girl obviously has some issues but either way she is back on the site. So much ado about nothing.

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    1. Regardless if she is back or not, the point is the same. The CR is no place for these discussions. It has no place on a frum yeshivish site.

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  14. The problem with the YWN coffe room and such sites is that they constantly have questions on the Ikerey Emuna from people who do NOT want answers.Plus a lot of those people make assertions that easy to answer but in YWN coffee room you may not find people capable of doing so.And a lot of these assertions are false but who has the time to verify.

    Let us learn one thing from the OTD crowd.They don't allow Kiruv figures to post on their sites we shouldn't allow them on ours

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  15. I agree 100% its bhereg va'yavor: avodah zarah, giluy arayot,shefichat damim

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  16. So where else should these teens go? You have a better place? Cuz I know A LOT worse places.

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  17. Chas V'sholom. Nobody should be thinking on their own.

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