updated 12/26/2013 http://thepartialview.blogspot.com/2013/12/giyus-protest-to-take-place-at.html |
| American Agudah leadership discussing planned Giyus protest |
Following the meeting of the Moetzes Gedolei Hatorah of Agudas yisrael in Eretz yisrael, it was decided a delegation of Admorim and some Roshei Yeshiva from Eretz yisrael will travel to America in an effort to pressure the Israeli Government on the drafting of bnei Hayeshivos to the army. The delegation will be led by the Gerrer Rebbe and Belzer Rebbe who has not been to the states in 20 years. The Belzer Rebbe conferred with Rav Aaron Leib Shteinman prior to his decision to participate.
(photo credit: bhol.co.il)
The Rebbes plan on meeting and lobbying US Government officials in the US on behalf of the cause hoping to put pressure on the Israeli Government. They will arrive in the US on Sunday January 5th, 2014.
Tthe atzeres Giyus protest will take place on Tuesday Parshas beshalach January 7th. Its a segulah to recite parshas haman on that day too. perhaps a large tefillah together can bring a yeshuah.
Tthe atzeres Giyus protest will take place on Tuesday Parshas beshalach January 7th. Its a segulah to recite parshas haman on that day too. perhaps a large tefillah together can bring a yeshuah.
ISTM that the premise of this protest is based on an unrealistic view of the world.
ReplyDeleteYou can make public protests about things that the world will see as persecution. You can't make public protests about things that the world sees as you demanding special privileges. Which is how the world sees this issue.
And the same goes for government officials.
IMO this shows a major downside of being isolated from outside influences. You live in a cocoon where you and everyone around you takes for granted that drafting yeshivaleit is a terrible oppression, and that the people in favor of this move are just evil reshoim out to persecute you, and that's all you hear and are exposed to, you lose sight of the extent to which people outside your circle view things from a different perspective.
I think it will have zero positive impact on the external world, and the major impact in that arena will be to undermine the frum oilem in America to the extent they are seen as a part of it, by making them seem as weirdo fanatics.
It could have an effect internally, in continuing to rally the oilem around the idea that the draft is yehareg v'al ya'avor or similar. This could assist in resisting such pressure as might be coming down the pike near term, but could also make a compromise of some sort harder, should such become necessary at some point.
I agree This demonstration will end up alienating the Israeli public who is the one who will make the decision on the matter. I have come to the conclusion that the real audience is the internal one.....reinforcing the victimization feelings that are constantly being repeated with the intention of strengthening internal solidarity. I think it is reasonable to ask if this is really worth it if it indeed ends up allienating the Israeli public.
DeleteThe Israeli public has already spoken, i.e. their large support for Lapid. I don't see how the chareidi public can just wait around for an ex nihilo change in public opinion. Pressure needs to be applied!
DeleteAsking to retain an agreement that was made when a country was founded about something that is standard in most of the world (the divinity student exemption) isn't asking for "special privileges"
ReplyDeleteThe divinity student exemption only exists in some other countries (not all, by any stretch - and it took some shtadlanus to get it done in the US when there was a draft) because very few people are divinity students.
DeleteThe problem here is that a subgroup of society has decided that 99.9% of their people are going to be divinity students (and the rest should be too, but are losers). I'm not aware of any countries that have an arrangement of this sort, and if there are, then most people elsewhere would probably not support that either.
And this is a situation that has arisen in the years after the state was founded.
The core of these protests are clear, announcing to the free world that judaism are opposed to zionist, that core issue will come true loud and clear.
ReplyDeletemost of the world already sees Israel in a bad light. when a large and prominent percentage of Judaism shows up to protest Israel's military complex it willl be terrible for Israel's world image and may cause them to rethink the wisdom of their choice to dog yeshivaleit (which isn't a move of necessity but is only a PR move in any case).
ReplyDeleteOnly the first part is true.
DeleteThe people protesting are not protesting Israel's "military complex", as we both know. Actually one part of the problem is that the secular press consistently and incorrectly reports that the charedim are right wing on security issues (presumably they're mixing up different types of right wingers) which makes them look like hypocrites at these protests, and while it would be worthwhile to clear up that misconception, the truth that the charedi public has no real position on security issues and is willing to barter it in exchange for virtually any other considerations looks only marginally better.
The world may well understand that:
ReplyDelete"The (Authentic) People of The Book Refuse to Live By The (Zionist) Sword"!!!
However those who have spent decades under the zionist kefira regime (ie no more golus, OUR land, OUR mighty army etc) and are married to their bribes and payoffs for mosdos may themselves have a much harder time internalizing the truth!
All explained clearly...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3SJYRkI2hM
45,000+ views so far!
Dovy and "Yehudi Neemon"-
ReplyDeleteIt is important to note that most Jews and non-Jews in the world do NOT accept your claim that supposedly "AUTHENTIC" Judaism is only found among anti-Zionist Haredim. In fact, most Jews in the world, both inside and outside Israel, religiously observant and not, accept and support to a lesser or greater extent the Zionist project. Since this posting has stated that the purpose of this meeting is to "lobby US officials to pressure the Israeli government on this matter" do you think think they will succeed in convincing these non-Jewish American officials that only THEY represent "authentic Judaism" and the rest of us, who make up 90% of Israel and world Jewry aren't "authentic Jews"?
I am sorry to be the one to break this to you but the Jews are a PEOPLE and the Torah is their consitution. That means the non-observant Jew is still obligated by the Torah (just as an American citizen who feels like avoiding paying income tax by claiming he was not consulted when it was implemented in the 19th century but who nevertheless is still obligated by the law) but , on the other hand, the religious Jew also has an unbreakable bond and with all other Jews, even if they have different ideological views and these views must be taken into account. Neither religiously observant nor non-observant Jews have a right to delegitimize the other and to claim "you are not an AUTHENTIC Jew" or "your view of Judaism is not legitimate". We live in a pluralistic world today and you are just going to have to accept that you can't simply impose your values on everyone else.
As I stated, the large majority of world Jewry supports Zionism and Israel, these American officials they are hoping lobby are aware of this and the Haredi leadership who wants to influence Israeli government policy which reflects Israeli public opinion has to be aware of this and to take it into account.
YBD-
Delete1) I suppose you would also "take into account" the views of the Reform-"Jews" or the Messianic-"Jews"!
Sorry, (& I know this is not PC), but our Torah HaKedosha is NOT pluralistic!!
Judaism by its very nature rejects other foreign "isms". This includes your beloved Zionism even if it has a democratic majority in your mind.
2) "you can't simply impose your values on everyone else"-Why doesn't everyone else include the Haredim who do not wish to be forced into your Zionist-indocrination (military) camps??
3) When the world media looks to illustrate an article about Jews do they use a photo of an AUTHENTIC (ie CHAREDI-looking) Jew or someone who looks like a zionist meshumad??! (This despite your zionist leaders having constantly tried to undermine Authentic-Judaism and falsely portray themselves as spokesmen for world-jewry.)
1) Americans believe in the separation of religion and state. A group claiming religious privilege to avoid army service won't get very far with them.
ReplyDelete2) Americans believe in fairness. A group saying that they are entitled to avoid army service even as they depend on that army to protect them won't get very far either.
3) Americans believe in doing something after studying. A group that says that they study for life and that it's the studying, not the doing, that's of value will be incomprehensible to them.
All this will do is bewilder the Americans who are way too busy figuring out how to get Obamacare.gov to work to care about a group of people who can't even speak their own language with proper grammar.
Yankee stadium would not be a bad idea. Following the siyum hashas and internet Asifa at Metlife stadium and citi field.
ReplyDelete