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| Shidduch crisis/Ami Magazine |
This weeks cover story of Ami Magazine is about the shidduch crisis. There is a demographic timebomb ticking in the yeshiva world, writes yossi krausz in his article. The age gap between boys anfd girls entering the shidduch market combined with the high rate of population growth, has meant that there simply are not enough bochurim to go around.
According to Rabbi Moshe Yanofsky of Machon bais yaakov there are currently around 3,000 unmarried frum women between the ages of 25-40 in the NY metro area and 500 unmarried frum women above 40. As discussed here there are many solutions and ideas to avert the crisis. Askanim point out that less pickiness by young people of who they will marry will not alliviate the problem. There simply are not enough 23 year old boys to marry all of the 19 year old girls.
Many solutions were mentioned by bridging the gap wether having boys marry older girls as discussed HERE and HERE.
In the Ami article, Brothers Shimon and Yisrael Lichtenstein (lmanbnosyisroel@gmail.com) are pushing for a plan that will have Bochurim not go to yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael, but rather start going to Lakewood or other Yeshivas in the US at the age of 20-21. there is talk of setting up a Mechina and more structured yeshive with maggidei shiur for boys that are interested. A recent Kol Kore was signed by many Roshei yeshiva calling on Bochurim to marry earlier.
Choosing a partner in life should be an organic process today. The notion that we can mechanically engineer solutions to this is repugnant, in my mind.
ReplyDeleteThe notion that we cannot constructively address a situation is repugnant, to a thinking mind.
DeleteFollowing the system of the American culture to "marry older" is not a wise idea. What you have is that 44 percent of children are now born out of wedlock. You also have a 50% divorce rate. That's the benefit of the wise idea of "additional life-experience" and "finding yourself" first.
I'm with Bald Guy.
DeleteQuite frankly, you're repugnant in my mind.
DeleteTBG, well said! You can't manipulate peoples life choices. They should start with removing the bounderies, then singles will meet pairs their own age, no brainer
ReplyDeleteNope, you can't manipulate people's life choices. So, why is it that over the past sixty years Americans began following the "wisdom" of marrying older? Nothing to do with "new" ideas being brought to the table by sociologists raving about its "benefits"? Surly was!
DeleteCoincidentally, that's when the American family began it's decline. That's when the divorce rate started climbing (50% now). That's when people stopped getting married. That's when out of wedlock children began being commonplace (44% of all children, now).
As an MFT (Marriage and Family Therapist) who has studied the family as an institution throughout history, I am appalled by your comments.
DeleteFirstly, divorce is not always a sign of "decline". If someone is in an abusive relationship, should they stay together? Should the spouse be beaten daily? Leaving is a sign of mental health (vs Stockholm Syndrome).
Next, a reason divorce was not common 80 years ago is that women had no income of their own. Once many men left to fight in World War 2, the women left their homes to provide for their families and then kept the concept of working. Now, if they were in a bad marriage, they could leave. Before if they left, they would be homeless and starve.
Another reason the divorce rate is up is because of research that has come out about children of divorce. These COD are no less likely to be "troubled" or "drug addicts" or "problematic" than kids from 2 parent homes. It all depends on stability of the home as well as the anger/fights/temperament of the house. If the 2 parent homes were rocky, full of verbal or physical fighting, violence, anger ect then their kids will be worse off than kids from calm, peaceful, stable single family homes.
Yes, some people are part of the "disposable marriage" theory. But some are people that stayed together for various reasons other than happiness.
Marry older, marry younger- that is not what causes the divorce rate. It is various factors of life. Not sociologists' theories.
I am glad to see an historian as well as family and marriage therapist (MFT) respond.
DeleteSee, over 50% of couples who make use of MFTs divorce.
So, therefore it is often better for people not to be married. Right?
It is better for over fifty percent of marriages to end in divorce, right?
It is better for 44 percent of children (or even 2%) to be born out of wedlock, right?
What you are suggesting is that humans do not need marriage. In fact, you theorize, they are often better off without it.
____
I do not know if you are Jewish. I am.
I believe in the Torah.
I believe in what the Torah teaches me.
I believe in what the Torah teaches me about humans/mankind.
In Bereishis 2, 18 Hashem makes it clear that is not good for Man not to be married.
In fact, Rashi makes it clear that Hashem wants us to understand that there is only one One. Only He, our Creator, is One. The rest of the universe was created in pairs, to be pairs.
Prior to Woman being brought to life, Man searched the length and breadth of the world for a mate. He was unable to find one.
Only a woman can be his mate.
Hashem insured that to be ingrained deep within mans psyche.
We, humankind, do need marriage.
We, humankind do need lasting marriages.
We, humankind, need everlasting marriages.
Thank you.
_________
Postscript.
A bird and a fish may love each other, but where shall live, together, permanently?
Worthwhile bearing in mind when out to seek a mate.
_____
Thank you to the therapist for her response.
if you don't force it -- not enough marriages will take place. if you let it work itself out, it will work out with far fewer marriages. that's what i think.
ReplyDeleteTuvia
http://moshemoshel72.blogspot.com/2013/01/blog-post_19.html?m=1
ReplyDeleteIts time we stop playing G-d and let hashem run the world. As Rav Avrohom yehoshua of Brisk commented soon they will tackle global warming.
ReplyDeleteThe underlying problem is the unrealistic expectation each gender puts on the other.
ReplyDeleteAs for the demographic, there are over 50 million Chinese men for whom there are no women thanks to selective abortion in China. Perhaps we should be doing kiruv there.
But the same girls who are passing up decent, quiet guys are the same girls who will reject every Ger that comes their way.
Delete"The underlying problem is the unrealistic expectation each gender puts on the other.
DeleteAs for the demographic, there are over 50 million Chinese men for whom there are no women thanks to selective abortion in China. Perhaps we should be doing kiruv there."
Please explain your logic and accounting? What does "unrealistic expectations" have to do with Chinese dropping their newborn daughters down wells, so that they'll have a son to take care of them when they get old? (The Chinese government only allows one child per family)
Psst. The culprit is that guys become less yeshivish at a higher rate than the girls do. Shh.
ReplyDeleteshould we blame the Bais yaakov system now for making the girls too frum or the yeshivos are not producing enough ehrliche bnei torah who are willing to learn after they get married.
Delete"Psst. The culprit is that guys become less yeshivish at a higher rate than the girls do. Shh."
DeletePsst. Do you have any numbers to support this? Why do the MO have the same issue? Shh
Psst. Do you have any logical way to refute the numbers?
Shh.
"should we blame the Bais yaakov system now for making the girls too frum or the yeshivos are not producing enough ehrliche bnei torah who are willing to learn after they get married."
DeleteNeither, as they are both producing, boruch Hashem, equal "products", proportionally.
We have to deal with the numbers.
It has nothing to do with blame, but everything to do with not misdiagnosing the problem all because we don't want to see what's in front of our noses. The 20 year old girls are looking for 24 year old guys with similar hashkafos but, guess what, by the time they are 24 many guys have bailed.
DeleteYou claim it's about misdiagnosing. So how are you going to deal with the math? The numbers? You haven't dealt with the numbers.
DeleteYou are seeking to misdiagnose. Why.
The MO have the same issue with girls. Why?
Guess what, bochurim at 24 are all still in yeshiva. (In proportion of those in THEIR age-group of girls seeking learning guys.) Please deal with the math.
Reading comprehension and picture/graph comprehension would go a long way.
DeleteI got divorced and got remarried. At the time that I married my current husband, he was 50 and never previously married.
ReplyDeleteHe has a steady job; goes to minyan 3x a day; is not on medication. But that is not good enough for all the women he dated.
He was not picky at all, and dated every girl suggested to him.
To put all the blame on the guys is to be very foolish.
The quiet guys with good middos get passed over.
The truth is, the underlying problem is a middos crisis.
ReplyDeleteThere are many who are just looking to marry money.
While there are certainly those who lack in middos and there are certainly gold-diggers around, that adds up to a very small percentage.
DeleteDo people without perfect middos get married? Yes, all the time. The vast majority of them do.
Do people looking to marry money get married? Yes they do.
The issue, as supported by the numbers, is ensuring there is an equal amount of boys and girls.
All other minor issues should be dealt with by each individual (i.e. improving their middos and desire for materialism).
The numbers is a collective issue.
Boys tend to be out in the world more and are not as idealistic as girls who live at home. Therefore a Bochur at 25 may decide that he did his time in yeshiva and wants to look for a job thereby he broadens his pool for potential dates to girls who are not looking for a learning boy. Girls on the other hand come to this realization much later.
ReplyDeleteThat's completely untrue. The bochurim at 25, who haven't married yet, are mostly in yeshiva. They seek to continue to learn and grow. The Lakewood Yeshiva has a thousand freshly married men join each year. That's besides all the other yeshivos and kollelim all over.
ReplyDeleteThe products of Beis Yaakovs and Yeshivos are equal, Boruch Hashem. The issue is the numbers. The proof is the fact that the MO have the issue (and many more).
You have yet to address the numbers. First you tried a cynical assertion about boys. Now you tried it again this way, in a baseless manner. Please be a little honest.
Good luck.
It has Nothing to do with numbers there is no proof or data to back it up. it may have been a crisis for a short while but with the population growth there are thousands of boys reaching shidduchim age from the next generation parents. The numbers game is based on a continuous pattern which has NO proof.
Delete"It has Nothing to do with numbers there is no proof or data to back it up."
DeleteReally, now? Did you read the article? Until you address the article, stupid and baseless assertions are worthless. It's all about the numbers. Fact.
It's the growth rate, fact.
"but with the population growth there are thousands of boys reaching shidduchim age from the next generation parents."
So, the next generation of 24 year-old boys should marry the 40 year-old girls???
Nope. There is simply, continually, more 24 year-old children than 19 year-old children, as our population is growing each year, Boruch Hashem.
Why do the MO have the problem? Also about bailing out???
The MO have a different crisis dont compare it to the yeshivish shidduch crisis. You keep on repeating the same baseless facts again and again. The MO dont start dating untill they have a degree there are many proffessionas in the Upper west side that have money and great jobs and still single not the women but actualy the Men!! there is no age gap issue there. and the MO have fewer kids than the yeshivish crowd. Your just mixing things up to prove your baseless facts. Stop playing G-d
DeleteReading comprehension and picture/graph comprehension would go a long way.
DeleteOh, there are MO men who are single than MO women??? Completely false.
DeleteBut, oh well. You have proven yourself over and over to be completely false and dishonest.
Please show us your how your reading comprehension has dealt with the math and graph in the article. Thank you.
with 5% population increase per year 100 23 yr.old boys land on shidduch island with 120 19 year old girls 20 must stay behind.nt.year 105 land with 125 20 must stay behind this is the problem the only answer is to start earlier boys should start at 21 for full details read the ami article
DeleteThis analogy with shidduch Island is all based on the assumption of future population growth. Its time to stop scaring people and creating panic. Huts Bitachon!!
DeleteWow, an outsider reading all these comments can only shake his head and wonder at the stupidity of the human race running around chasing their tail.
ReplyDeleteYes, there is a concept of hishtadlut, which we should partake in. However, are we so dense to not realize that G-d holds the key to this particular issue? This is so hard for everyone because it's one of the few things that the illusion that we are in control is so thin. G-d controls the world and everything in it, yet there is a concept of teva and we think we control a lot more than we do. In this case our hishtadlut does not reach as far as it does with other issues.
The numbers game makes sense statistically, but it does not make a lot of sense practically. "19 year old girls marry 23 year old boys, which leaves an age gap, etc." Do we not believe in the concept of a bashert/zivug? 40 days before a child is conceived a bat kol is heard in heaven saying "bat ploni l'ploni." Are all these people not marrying their zivug hagon??
There isn't an answer to this dilemma. Each generation has their share of challenges. This is one of our's great nisyonot. Instead of chasing our tail and making ourselves crazy, we should work on strengthening our emunah and bitachon, and working to become better people. Perhaps in that zechut our "crisis" will be averted.
"we should work on strengthening our emunah and bitachon, and working to become better people."
DeleteAbsolutely! This is very true.
There are those, who through good intentions have gone to fear-mongering in order to promote their agenda. While they will be richly rewarded for the good they do, they will have to give a very serious accounting for some of the tactics they've used.
They will have to give an accounting for when they were worried that "their" organization should be the one "doing things". Quiet, but meaningful, hishtadlus would be appropriate.
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"Do we not believe in the concept of a bashert/zivug? 40 days before a child is conceived a bat kol is heard in heaven saying "bat ploni l'ploni." Are all these people not marrying their zivug hagon??"
The Meiri (A Rishon) in the beginning of meseches Sota has a very interesting explanation on that Gemara.
["Wow, an outsider reading all these comments can only shake his head and wonder at the stupidity of the human race running around chasing their tail."
Please explain the relevance, as well as the constructiveness, of such a comment. Thank you.]
For the people commenting on MO, you are totally wrong. Go to Washington Heights and look at the number of good frum single girls. They also have the "bailing out" problem. It is just a little different than in yeshivish circles. There are more "good MO girls" than "good MO guys", meaning the girls are looking for a guy who will daven 3 times a day and be kovea itim and be shomer torah u'mtzvos to the full extent, while many boys by age 24 want to be more lax, with regard to all these things, go out to bars etc and are less interested in learning, davening then when they first came back from learning in Israeli yeshivas.
ReplyDeleteIf this is the true cause of the marriage crisis, then why was it NEVER MENTIONED by the 150+ generations of Jews that preceded us over the past 33+ centuries?
ReplyDelete