The haters were out in full force meddling in an issue they know nothing about. The blogging rabbis were quick to the draw. A Shabbos march took place in Lakewood to spread awareness of kedushas shabbos in an area where teens have been gathering and publicly desecrating the shabbos. Rabbis, Fink, Horowitz along with Harry the blogger were quick to the trigger, pointing the problem as a direct result of the golden standard of Lakewood's chinuch and that of the yeshiva world at large. Its laughable and even foolish of them to get involved in something that is beyond their keyboards and understanding of a culture they dont practice. First they spun it as a "protest" when it was nothing of that sort, second, do they think for a second that rabbonim and the organizers dealing with this issue did not factor in all the ramifications. Do they think no one is dealing with these kids? Do they think no ne loves these children? where they privy to the meetings before during and after the shabbos march? How dare they stick their two cents and blame the charedi system for every shortcoming.
But more than that lets take a look at their great alternative the Modern orthodox approach of openness and alternatives one would expect perfection from such a system. Why is it that 7 out of 10 Modern orthodox teens admitted to text on Shabbos R""L. That is more than 60%! They keep what is called "half of shabbos". Who are you blaming now Fink Maryless and Horowitz??????????
I think that nebach, for the Fink's and Horowitz's the activity being protested against was what they consider normal and typical behavior. That is quite likely a large part of the reason why they were so horrified.
ReplyDeleteMake no mistake, this was not so much a kiruv march. such outreach is done in other ways and there is are many different people who are involved. Besides that there is need a to stand up for kedushas Shabbos. This was a march for kedushas Shabbos.
Kedushas sahbbos is a foreign concept to Fink and his ilk, he thought the "Shabbos App' was a great idea aas well as the so called "Kosher Switch". No wonder he was "offended" by a Kedushas Shabbos march, he is a big fan of zilzul Shabbos.
These Bloggers who call themselves rabbis have no real life followers the only thing that powers them is the Internet. I just laugh whenever they show how clueless they are. Actually its arrogance.
ReplyDelete7 out of 10 is more than 60%. Actually it is 70%.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you break one of 39 Melachos, how does that add up to 50%?
Just ahhhsking.
The funny thing is that BMG stopped the "marc" bec it was the wrong thing to do. R' Yehuda Jacobs admitted it was a mistake. I am from Lakewood and I do understand the culture. I live here and love this place but the MAJORITY of the yeshivish community aand the town as a whole strongly disagreed with this approach. Many Roshe Yeshiva and Rabonim came out against it.The march itself only consisted of a couple hundred people. There werent many more than that supporting the idea. It was a terrible mistake, the yeshivish people brought their own kids there (which R' Yehuda Jacobs hung up signs now protesting). Look at R' Yehuda Jacobs says in this weeks Voice of Lakewood, he doesnt speak so highly of "the golden standard" you speak of. He blames the issue on the "golden standard" which does not except kids into their mosdos's . He says there that all of the kids michalel shabbos there are kids who were rejected or thrown out from schools. Did you not see the email Aaron Kotler sent out on Friday stating that the protest will not continue as it was not a productive approach. He explained why. You should read it.
ReplyDeleteI live in Lakewood too, but dear readers please take note of this ALERT!! Mostly everything this guy wrote wrote is a lie.
DeletePeriod.
Where can we read ahron kotlers email
Deleteanon 2 pm
DeleteTotal lie there was not one letter against it. You are misrepresenting facts they did not call on the entire town to come out and march on shabbos. The fact the a few hundred did show is significant.
AK email
DeleteFYI the Rabbonim, neighbors, Roshei Yeshiva and those active in Youth at Risk have all agreed that the Kavod Shabbos approach that was taken is not a productive one. Alternatives are being developed to better engage our children and to better help them, without allowing for any sense of confrontation to develop. These children need to know that we love them and understand their challenges and that must be our method of connecting to
Im Anoyn 2pm
Delete4:17pm: Which of what I wrote is a lie? I am heavily involved with the boys and have been in close contact with many local rabonim and roshei yeshiva the past couple of weeks. I would love to hear your take on what I wrote (you obviously also feel very involved , if you can claim what I wrote is a lie).
7:43pm: "total lie" cute :). I didn't say there were letters against it, which by he way there were (I don know where you daven). Have a conversation with some of the rabonim who spoke out against it SB, MP, MR, RG, DS, (initials of the famous rabonim) .
The fact that a couple hundred showed is insignificant for the yeshivish community is what I was saying. BMG has 5k talmidim, many of the couple hundred people who attended the march had walked from far. I did not misrepresent any facts. I never said that the entire town was called to the march (which is debatable btw)
Its a lie that "R' Yehuda Jacobs admitted it was a mistake".
DeleteIts a lie that "the MAJORITY of the yeshivish community aand the town as a whole strongly disagreed with this approach".
Its a lie that "Many Roshe Yeshiva and Rabonim came out against it".
Its a lie that "There werent many more than that (a couple hundred) supporting the idea".
Its a lie that "It was a terrible mistake". That's your (obviously biased) opinion.
Its a lie that "the yeshivish people brought their own kids there". SOME PEOPLE brought kids there. very few.
Its a lie that "R' Yehuda Jacobs hung up signs now protesting". He signed a letter advising people not to let children or teens go to the lake. He wasn't "protesting"
Its a lie that Rabbi Jacobs "blames the issue on the "golden standard" which does not except kids into their mosdos's".
Its a lie that Rabbi Jacobs "says there that all of the kids michalel shabbos there are kids who were rejected or thrown out from schools".
Basically every sentence you wrote was a lie.
Stop lying!
What compels you to lie and make up stories about sweet beautiful Yeshiva kollel familes whos lives revolve around Abaya veRava, whos only care in the world is coming closer to hashem. Whos happiness and sadness come from spiritual places. pure, innocent, holy.
Why??
Did you read the article in the voice? Did you speak with the Rabonim? Did you not hear from the Rabonim who I initialled? Seriously where have u been this past week? Why have u been so outbox the hock?nothing I said was a lie. I was by the lake and I work with the kids and the askance and Rabonim involved. Serious question: why are you even on the Internet
DeleteLol!!!... I was waiting for the "why are you even on the Internet" jargon. And you work with kids??? OMG!
DeleteOr is that because you obviously don't have much success talking to adults?
But back to the issue. PLEASE stop making stuff up. Don't fantasize this stuff and post it in order to fit and further your twisted view on chinuch.
I have alot of success talking with adults and kids at risk, thanks. You seem to be the only one commenting on your own blog. Read the article, read what the rabonim opposing the protest wrote. Read what Aron Kotler wrote. DO SOME RESEARCH ON WHY THEY HAVE STOPPED THE PROTEST "MARCH". than comment.
DeleteYou don't see the stirah in complaining that people without the knowledge and from another culture shouldn't say anything, and then closing off with a critique of another culture?
ReplyDelete1000% ! :) kudos to you for using your marbles
DeleteIts no stirah at all Fink and Harry claim their approach of chinuch is perfect and works best. If so why is there a high rate of chilul shabbos in the MO community. They should be embracing all laws of Judaism since there is no extreme it is the middle of the road.
Deleteyou're forgetting that both of them dont represent or claim to represent the mo community
DeleteHarry claims to represent the MO.
DeleteSource?
DeleteJust about every single one of Harry's posts claim to be representative of the MO community. Additionally, Harry's blog was started with a grant from YU's Center for the "Jewish future".
DeleteAs someone who lives in Lakewood by the Lake and unlike Fink and Horowitz actualy knows whats going on here in Lakewood, and after reading what these anti yeshivish bloggers wrote I can say a few things:
ReplyDelete1. By what they wrote it is obvious that they have no idea about what the objective was.
2. They also have no idea what went on there.
3. They also have no idea who was behind it.
4. They have no idea that almost no one in Lakewood knows that they (Fink and Horowitz) exist. No one in Lakewood will ever know they exist either.
5. They have no idea that the few that did hear of them burst out laughing at the mere mention of their name.
6. They have no idea about anything that involves the Yeshiva world.
7. They have no idea how even within the modern orthodox and OTD Klux Klan community that they represent their opinon counts just enough to be reposted on OTD Satire blogs and then...joked about, again.
8. They have no idea what the difference between straight and crooked is.
9. They have no idea about anything regarding Yiddishkite if its not on Facebook.
10. They have no idea how to deal with kids at risk.
11. They have no idea why they call themselves "Rabbi".
12. They have no idea how they would survive if there were no shortcomings in the frum community.
13. They have no idea why G-D created the Jews, and why we have the Torah.
14. They have no idea how to stop lying about the frum community.
15. They have no idea how the kids that go to the lake feel.
16. They Have no idea why kids go off the derech.
17. They have no idea how not to stop the damage that they have been causing to kids at risk.
18. They have no idea when the last time they opened a gemara was.
19. They have no idea why all yeshiva people cant finally just close the gemara and do something real like blog on Facebook all day.
20. They have no idea that our Gedolim, Rabonim, Rabeim, and Morahs are doing a great job leading and teaching our generation the beautiful ways of our Torah and are not the enemy....Fink and Horowitz are.
I hope this is a joke
Delete1. Did you read what they wrote in length?
Delete2. They do know what went on there bec they heard from myself who was there as well as other people who were there (yes, from the yeshivish community)
3. That may be true, bec no one in BMG either knows who was "really" behind it. If you are really from Lkwd , you know that this is not R' Jacobs or R' Yeruchems speed,
4. Really? You obviously dont know who they are. Rabbi Finks father has a school in Monsey which many Lakewood kids attend, they both have ALOT of prestigious family in Lakewood (again, yes yeshivish)
5. How does an immature line like that help you explain your position?
6. Ye but they do know, R' Horowitz is a very accepted mechanech in Lakewood. Most Lakewood mechanchim respect him and attend his lectures. You obviously do not know much about the famous Rabbi Horowitz. They have alot of family here, and Rabbi Finks father is constantly dealing hands on with Lakewood, so research a little before writing something you apparently know nothing about.
7. IF you would follow them , you would know that they are far from representing the OTD community. Stop hocking, it is easy to see what they 'hold'.
8.Cute
9. I dont believe R Horowitz has FB, if he does , he's def not active. But your attacks seems smart.
10.LOL R' Horowitz is credited as first person to do something with the kids at risk in the early 1990s. This is all documented. Oh also his school. lol
11. Well R' Fink has been a Rabbi of the Venice shul (btw he has hosted many yeshivish rabonim & chasidishe rebbes there over the years). R' Horowitz has been a rebbi and menahel in Monsey for decades.
12. haha
13. getting smarter
14. solid
15. adir bamarom
16. youre really funny
17. been causing to kids at risk" omg
18. I guess you dont attend their daf yomi shiurim
19. nah, they now why
20. Now the final question, do you know why the march was canceled? Do you know what was behind it (besides for the donors) Do you know the rabonim apologized to the askanim?!
Apparently you don't know much "hock" , you must be new to this. Welcome, welcome, it will be alot of fun for you. You will learn alot of shocking and funny things. One imp lesson you'll learn is to do real research before reporting. Enjoy the ride!
Excellent Gut Gezugt these rabbis are on the internet all day totally not in touch with reality.
DeleteWhy dont you research these Rabbis before commenting.
DeleteHorowitz is no longer accepted by the yeshiva community. No Rebbeim in Lakewood consult with him. He is shunned by many respected Charedi Roshei yeshiva and Rabbonim. Agudah disassociated themselves from him and from project yes. He tweets all day he no longer has a school or any job in Chinuch. Even the MO org JCW that advocates for victims of abuse did not have him speak at the Monsey event. He used to be more in line with the yeshivish circles but over the last few years he veared to the left and preaches mainly to the Modern Orthodox crowds traveling to their shuls as a scholar in residence. He never had a hands on program in Monsey for kids at risk other rebbeim in Monsey dealt with them and had their hands dirty Horowitz spoke about it at the convention. Hes not active on FB but he tweets all day. He davens in a Modern Orthodox shul by Rabbi Tendler. do your homework.
DeleteThis is the most on target essay Ive seen in years!!
DeleteThank you! you've made my night.
Sharf! Razor Sharp.
DeleteRegarding Horowitz: When he came on the scene 15- 20 years ago the Kids at Risk issue was a problem. He, Mr. know-it-all of course had all the solutions, Now after all his help and "awareness" we are left with a problem 100 times greater then when he arrived (and was thrown out)! He's like Obama in 2008 and the "big change", the only thing that changed is that things got worse. People these days are starting to realize its guys like Horowitz who MADE the problem way worse!
Another point: How in the world are these bloggers who are so far removed from the Lakewood culture and (from what they write) obviously haven't a clue about the issue able to comment and give their so off target opinion??!
Lastly, Its amazing how closed and narrow minded guys like Fink are. Yes they are soooo liberal, sooo understanding, cultured, so full of love for every Jew. So open minded..... as long as you fit into their narrow perspective of things.
Fink's father's school in Monsey is for families that are on the left-wing of Orthodoxy.
DeleteAnd Mr. Eliyahu Fink is a nobody.
Why did Yanky Horowitz take Feldheim publishers and Mrs. Goetz to a din Torah when they published a childrens book on child safety titled talking about private places? was he scared it will eat into the profits of his book (which was also authored by Mrs. Goetz)? If hes there for the children why would a competing book bother him??
DeleteI don't know anything about the din Torah, but you can't fault anyone for taking someone to a Din Torah. If it is as you say, the Din Torah will rule against Horowitz. But he surely has a right to initiate a Din Torah without being criticized for going to din Torah.
DeleteFrom what ive heard the din Torah was long over a while back by now feldheims book is back on the shelves and selling in all stores.
DeleteIt would be very interesting if you would post some honest reporting on the meetings which had taken place in Lakewood since last week Tuesday. The meetings with the Roshe Yeshiva. The meetings with the askanim involved.
ReplyDeleteAskanim= erev rav
ReplyDelete