For someone spending a few dollars a week to get his news if you bought the Yated Ne'eman or daily Hamodia or Mishpacha you wouldn't know much about what was said or which Gedolim attended the Huge rally in Foley square against drafting Bochurim to the Israeli Army. On the other hand Ami magazine especialy had full coverage of the evnt. Mishpacha magazine dedicated a special issue about the draft but did not report on the event in New York. We reported on the Online frum blogs HERE now its the print media too.To be fair Both newspapers posted a picture on the front cover about the NY protest. The Hamodia gave a fair report but very limited. It did mention that other gedolim were opposed at having a protest at this time. The Yated, reported on it as a larger story of assault on the frum. It did mention that it was organized by Satmar and only gave a quarter of a page news report in form of a press release, the same article appeared on matzav.com with some slight changes. Only one sentence mentioned that the speakers highlighted the serious nature of the gezeirous facing torah Jewry in EY,and the need to be mechazek in Torah and tefillah. The Yated Editor Rabbi pinchos Lipschutz is a Talmid of Philadelphia Rosh yeshiva, HaRav Shmuel Kamenetzky shlita who issued a letter to his talmidim not to attend the protest. If your a talmid of Chaim Berlin you wouldn't know that Rav Aaron Shechter was there, nor would you know which other Litvisher Roshei Yeshiva were there, none of the speeches were transcribed or reported what was said. Oh, how many people were there? well the last sentence mentioned it was estimated to be between 50,000-75,000. Guess thats not a significant fact when that many Yidden get together.
On the other hand AMI magazine editor Rav Yitzchock Frankfuter is a Talmid of Harav Dovid Soleveitchik Rosh Yeshiva Of yeshivas Brisk in Yerushalayim, who Issued a strongly worded letter calling on bnei chutz Laaretz to attend. Rabbi Frankfutter noted that in his article and reported extensively on the Protest in Federal plaza on June 9th, 2013.
I had to point out a blatant lie in this report
ReplyDeleteMishpacha did not have a single word about the protest
they have a special magazine dedicated to the issue, but nothing about the demonstration.
I just started reading this weeks Mishpacha and it is a masterpiece in professionalism and in providing intelligent answers to pressing issues, and not propoganda at all.
Thanks for the correction. Updated.
DeleteDo you work for Mishpacha?
DeleteThe question is, who fed Rav Shmuel Kamenetzky his information, ie that the letter from Rav Elya Ber was mistaken and the denial from Rav Chaim Kanievsky's sons were correct. . .
ReplyDelete"On the other hand AMI magazine editor Rav Yitzchock Frankfuter is a Talmid of Harav Dovid Soleveitchik Rosh Yeshiva Of yeshivas Brisk in Yerushalayim"
ReplyDeleteWhy do you connect Rav Frankfurter to Rav Dovid Soloveichik, when Rav Frankfurter wrote in an article that he learned by Rav Dovid Soloveichik for just one year?
Read the AMI article, Rabbi Frankfuter himself writes that hes a talmid and thats why he went.
DeleteI think it's better for someone to take responsibility for their own actions without mixing Gedolei Torah such as Rav Dovid Sololveichik into article which he did not see or approve of.
DeleteRav Dovid wrote a letter (one may wonder what he would say if he was told that upon receipt it was immediately forwarded to be published on the internet blogs) which was consistent with the already outspoken haskafah of the other Gedolei Hador- that everyone should do all they could to help reverse the actions against the Yeshivos and Bnei Yeshivah.
Rav Dovid never wrote in the letter to join with a protest in Manhattan which Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievesky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky and many other Roshei Hayeshivos and Gedolei Torah stated won't help or accomplish anything.
P.S. Perhaps the one who quickly sent the tshuvah from Rav Dovid Soloveichik to be published on the internet, will also publish a copy of his shaylah- so readers could know how the question was presented to Rav Dovid? [e.g.: Did he inform Rav Dovid that he's asking about a protest which Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, and the many other Gedolei Torah and Roshei Hayeshivos didn't tell their Talmidim to support, because they felt that it is clear that it wouldn't actually accomplish anything towards their goals?, etc.]
DeleteRav dovid didnt only write a letter he actively campaigned ad pushed for theklal in America to demonstrate. Did you read the AMI magazine pesach edition?
Delete"Rav dovid didnt only write a letter he actively campaigned"
DeleteRav Dovid stated clearly what all the other Gedolei Torah had said- that everyone should do all they could to help reverse the actions against the Yeshivos and Bnei Yeshivah.
Rav Dovid never wrote or "campaigned" to join with a protest in Manhattan which Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievesky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky and many other Roshei Hayeshivos and Gedolei Torah stated won't help or accomplish anything.
As is known, Rav Dovid Soloveichik and Rav Shteinman both have boundless love for Eretz Yisroel, they are both Tzadikim, and they both want to avoid bitul Torah- but will supporting talmidim leaving the Bais Midrash- IF it will be constructive, and accomplish helping the situation in a way which is "Ei Efsher Al Yidei Acheirim."
Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievesky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky and many other Roshei Hayeshivos and Gedolei Torah stated that the protest in Manhattan wouldn't help or accomplish anything- therefore there was no toeles to be mivatel thousands of Talmidim from learning Torah.
If they thought it would make a difference which wouldn't be possible an alternative way, then they certainly would have supported the protest and went along with their talmidim.
So, please stop clouding the issues- the machlokes here is simple: Is it EVEN proper to close down all the yeshivas to send all the Bnei Yeshiva to protest in Mnahattan when it is known that it WON'T make a difference, or, is it ONLY proper to close down all the yeshivas to send talmdim to protest, when it is known that it WILL make a difference.
As is known, Rav Shteinman met directly and had internal discussions with representatives from the government to know the "metziyus", and he came to the absolute conclusion that the protest wouldn't accomplish anything.
You are clouding the issues here. There are gedolim who called on their talmidim to go. Rav Elya ber wachtfogel, Rav Aaron Shechter, rav Yosef Rosenblum, Rav Eli chaim Swerldloff, Rav Moshe shimon Shapiro, many other Roshei yeshiva and Gedolim in EY who were for the protest. If your rebbeim said not to go thats fine, dont ignore the fact that there is another tzad over here. And Rav Dovid personally called up his talmidin to attend the atzeres.
Delete"And Rav Dovid personally called up his talmidin to attend the atzeres."
Delete1) Who did Rav Dovid "personally call"?
2) Once again, was Rav Dovid told that this protest would help? Or, was he told that Rav Shteinman met directly and had internal discussions with representatives from the government to know the "metziyus", and he came to the absolute conclusion that the protest wouldn't accomplish anything. And, that Rav Chaim Kanievesky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky and many other Roshei Hayeshivos and Gedolei Torah stated that the protest in Manhattan wouldn't help or accomplish anything- therefore there was no toeles to be mivatel thousands of Talmidim from learning Torah?
Do you know how the question presented?
Now your questioning and speculating on the facts. Funny you dont question anything or anyone who you agree with. Do your homework. zei gezunt
DeletePlease point out where Rav Dovid Soloveichik said everyone should attend.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Rav Dovid Soloveichik wrote something that Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, and the many other Gedolei Torah and Roshei Hayeshivos who did NOT send their talmidim to the protest- agree with- that everyone must do anything they could THAT WILL HELP reverse the legislation targeting Chareidim and Yeshivos.
The reason Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky, and the many other Gedolei Torah and Roshei Hayeshivos didn't tell their Talmidim to support the protest- is be cause they felt that it is clear that it wouldn't actually accomplish anything towards their goals.
For some reason you seem to repeatedly omit this essential point.
If youve read previous posts this point was explained. Elu Veilu. Im glad you know the reasoning behind the gedolim.
Delete"Im glad you know the reasoning behind the gedolim."
DeleteEveryone who read Rav Shteinman's letter knows the reasoning- he wrote it explicitly.
Who can tell me exactly what rav shteinman said? Did he say it won't help? To whom? When? There is no credible info out there. not even a forged letter.
ReplyDeleteHis Gabbai Rav Chizkiyahu Mishkovsky asked him and he said it will not help. He never said not to attend.to go or not to go was a politics as usual beetween 2 different factions.
Delete